Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted.

now you're just QQ'ing like a *****.

I don't want you to stop ganking nor am I going to remove aggression in high sec vOv

No because you are only looking at this from one perspective that of the ganker.

What's odd about this whole thread / proposed change is that it will make low end ore mining less profitable, encouraging and rewarding higher risk mining. Isn't that what we want? For reward to match risk?

If you're really trying to teach the "stupid pigs" lessons, they'll learn them when profits plummet. Or, they will become low paid wage slaves for those of us who want cheap expensive ships. They'll be the eve equivalent of third world labor.

Yay third world labor!

IMO, the only real solution that will satisfy both sides is simply to have meaningful consequences for having a criminal record.

If you gank in real life, you don't get forgiven after a few minutes. In Eve, if you gank, you should wind up on the faction's/corporation's Most Wanted list, flashy red to faction navies to gate guns to players associated with that faction/corporation, for *forever* or until you pay restitution plus a hefty penalty. Criminals are locked out of the faction/corporation: no station services, no docking, no running around safely in a pod, no one cares about how much ratting you do because security status doesn't exist anymore, etc.. You do the crime, you get shot at for all time.

Gankers can still gank but they have to be really sneaky about it (i.e. raid from low-sec or from friendly faction territory.) High-sec players can band together to keep their local communities safe from marauders. Nobody has to deal with quirky, nonsensical, and unrealistic aggression mechanics. CONCORD goes away except for newbies systems. It's win win.

Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).

and you still can't go afk for hours because asteroids will pop after about 6 mins. less if you're not using a hulk.

CCP have rolled back the HP buff to something far better. Before the latest change there was no point in getting a skiff because the two other exhumers could tank far too much. Now the skiff has a roll to fill and miners will continue to require to fit a tank of they will be a tempting target for a ganker.

The t1 barges are all in good shape too as they can now fit a good tank.

Ganking for profit lets see how that works, you have one ship topped out at 120 mil taking down a ship valued at 280 mil. The gank pilot makes a profit the miner loses. It goes beyond that though right? The gank toon grabs another nado and repeats the process, meanwhile that miner that just got ganked is busy grinding to replace his ****. Ok, fine he got ganked, miners arent bitching that they are getting ganked, they are bitching because the gankers lose such a small amount compared to the miner himself.

Granted, this is eve and dark bullshit is everywhere. However, with changes to barges it will take at least 2 nados if not 3 to drop a barge. Even at 3 that puts ship cost at 270 mil for a 280 mil ship. Sounds like a fair deal to me. High sec isnt a pretty playland where you can comb each other's hair, you can STILL be ganked, its just going to cost you just as much as your costing the miner. If you want to be a pirate try your luck in low sec. In a logical sense, why is it so damn important to gank miners for profit?

your analogies are wrong because neither of those things happen in 30 seconds.

the simple fact is destroyers are intended to kill frigates that quickly, not cruiser + sized ships that quickly. mining ships can't shoot back and have to give up pretty much everything possible in order to fit a tank. no other ship has to give up so much just so they can be used.

*shrug* i don't know.

no, they won't do 500 dps to both targets because the ships will have different resistances.

not to mention the faction battleship can ignore the catalyst because it has enough ehp that concord will be there before the catalyst can even get through it's shield.

WTB Retriever with T2 heavy missile launchers.

posting in 100500th thread: "i hate miners"

This is completely new theme!

there is nothing to be proud of when you CANNOT something. Only ability to do something makes you respected by others.

I am still convinced that some of you gankers are just crying about the fact that ganking became suddenly so much harder for you

OP and other "hardcore" PVP players spending their time ganking defenseless ships in hisec should listen to their own advice they've been shouting for so long and LEARN TO ADAPT !

It's not surprising that the devs are trying to appeal to the incredibly stupid baby masses - making changes or improvements for the hardc0re 1337 players doesn't help them as a business. Doing stuff like this will potentially draw in or retain the new terribad players. Thats why there's so much focus on frigates, destroyers, mining barges, greyscales awful ideas for crimewatch, etc.

There is easily 25 posts in the first few pages of this thread where gankers and gank supporters are crying about the proposed changes. How could you miss them?

You might think so, hu...

Well, make a real world comparison then: What do you think how many mining companies would go out of business when terrorists would start attacking them specifically and in force... what would that do to international industry? Material shortages, sky rocketing prices on anything manufactured out of metal, you get the picture.

Ok, true, that's one reason why I always thought ALL ships should need maintainance and fuel... oh well.^^

Meh, relying on CCP to buff, nerf and otherwise pick sides in the gankers versus miners drama is bad design. Defending or killing miners really should be up to the players. IMO, CCP should have used the CrimeWatch overhaul fix the ganking problem, specifically by making the criminal flag permanent. If you want to gank someone, go for it, but don't be surprised if the rest of the community/faction hunts you down, sanctions you, revokes your docking privileges, and denies access to station services for being such a twit.

SEC rating is not properly enforced.

It shouldn't take multiple crimes to get you below -5. And ratting up sec status shouldn't absolve one of the crimes. CONCORD may have a short memory, but players don't.

Tradable kill rights don't go far enough, IMO. Teamwork aka community aka public action should be the primary factor in making high-sec safe. And that only works if everyone is allowed to be part of the neighborhood criminal watch. This having to watch a known criminal repeat their crimes over and over is just too reminiscent of some US court systems.

And in case it wasn't obvious, CONCORD should have a diminished role.

I never said that, nor implied it. Stop making **** up, troll.

-5 and lower are not the only ones ganking. Nice try though. SEC status is too easily changed.

While there are tons of factors that ultimately determine mineral prices, lots of ganking is a big net win for miners who know how to protect themselves.

So we now need to protect miners against their own fatigue and stupidity (for disabling the warning ever)?

It's BRIGHT YELLOW instead of White. After that, there's a big pop-up. If you lose your Orca because you disabled it (I don't know, because your mining buddy doesn't know how standings works or some stupidity like that), that is entirely your fault.

If TWO BIG Clues saying "something's wrong here" aren't enough to keep "realistic" Orca pilots alive, I honestly don't know what could. If you can't bother reading what a pop-up says (there are 3 pop-ups like it in HS. All three equal Death for an Orca Pilot), maybe the orca loss will wake you up.

Why should you get special protections against your own avoidable human error? Nobody else does. If you're that tired, go to bed.

Hulk

[+|n] shipBonusEmShieldResistanceORE3
[+|n] shipBonusExplosiveShieldResistanceORE3
[+|n] shipBonusKineticShieldResistanceORE3
[+|n] shipBonusThermicShieldResistanceORE3

armorHP: 2300.0 => 1800.0

capacity: 500.0 => 350.0

hp: 2500.0 => 2000.0

requiredSkill1Level: 3.0 => 1.0

shieldCapacity: 2700.0 => 2200.0

shieldEmDamageResonance: 0.625 => 1.0

shieldExplosiveDamageResonance: 0.35 => 0.5

shieldKineticDamageResonance: 0.375 => 0.6

shieldThermalDamageResonance: 0.5 => 0.8

shipBonusORE3: -3.0 => -5.0

shieldEmDamageResonance: 0.625 => 1.0

WAIT, does that make it invincible to EM?

no it isn't. that's the issue.

^ What was the trade off for the destroyer buff and new T3 BCs? You should have spoken up then, about balance and not overdoing something. Its too late to stop the dumb train now.

Yep and some of us spotted what was going to happen soon as the winter patch info leaked and got a look at the numbers and changes, and nothing was done eitehr way...

I could turn things arround and say CCP forces the big bad wolf, to use his brains.

I've no trouble with gankers as a whole I do hate the fact that with the current mining ships it's possible to create a trial account and shoot al but every mining ship in a week or so in a destroyer.


I don't mine but I consider that a expliot.

It boggles my mind how some of the seasoned players spend so much effort to prevent others from enjoying aspects of the game other than pvp. I have only ever mined in lowsec (and only briefly at that). I don't get all the hate toward miners. I wonder if all pvpers start life as asteroids? Maybe that would explain it...

And you think that is remotly a serious threat.

Oh I'm sure people will try it, I just think it won't be very effective.

A crowd draws attention.